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« Don't Stop Believing: Online reviews | Main | An Interview with A. Philip Brown II, part 1 Author of "A Reader's Hebrew Bible" with Bryan W. Smith »

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OR, just to add one more take to the debate, maybe what Paul intended was that the law is good to those who use it lawfully. In other words, the law IS good, but to those who misuse it, the law is of no effect.

But still isn't the law intrinsically good whether it has an effect on us? Rom 7:12 reads as an absolute. But I see your point: the positive value of the law is only for those who see it as a revelation of God's will and how to love God and our neighbor.

I was going to hit the similar topic.

"both translations accepted the Greek word "if’; however, does that mean the goodness of the law is contingent upon our use of it? Isn’t the law good in and of itself? It is what the Greek says, but one wonders if it is what Paul meant."

I will take it from a different angle. If the law is being interpretted and applied and used incorrectly, is it any longer "the law" as God gave it, and intended it? And if not, it would be justified to say that this counterfeit "law" is indeed "bad"; that is, it's "goodness" is indeed contingent upon it's proper use.

An example:
Do Muslims worship the same God as Jews and Christians? Muslims derive their teachings from the Old and New Testaments. But they misuse and misapply the testaments, and interpret them through their Qu'ran, and therefore it's not really the same God they are worshiping, but a false one. And in that case, their "God" is of no good to them.

"God" is not intrinsically good if they misapply and misinterpret his correct revelation of himself.

***

Just as a wildcard-
Do JEWS worship the same God as Christians?
Point to consider: Christians (and the Creeds) insist God is a Trinity, and Jesus is fully God.

-Aaron

No, I would say God remains intrinsically good regardless. The intrinsic goodness of the law is a little more difficult to understand because it is at the same time the revelation of God's character and will as well as (at least part of it depending on your understanding) a temporary guardian leading us to the time of Christ.

Well, here's another example: Gnosticism. Or, modern New Age neo-gnosticism (resurged with the discovery of the Gospel of Thomas, etc.).

If a person believes that Jesus's chief message is about inner enlightenment, and that there is a divine spark of deity within each of us (as opposed to a message of sin and redemption), is that Jesus really intrinsically good? Or is it actually nothing more than an idol, made in man's own image?

Back to the law-
"Timothy’s opponents in Ephesus have been placing an undue and inappropriate emphasis on their peculiar understanding of the law. While Paul is going to differ with them, he points out that they share at least point of agreement; the law is good — but it must be used as it was intended to be used."

If "the Law" is being incorrectly interpreted and applied, then that person isn't actually interpreting and applying "the Law." Actually, they are "trading the truth of God for a lie," and interpreting and applying their own false "Law."

Therefore, their version of their "Law" is not necessarily intrinsically good just because it bears the label "Law."

Or as Shakespeare would say, "that which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet."

It's not the label "Law" that makes it intrinsically good. It is the correct interpretation and application of "the Law" that makes it good. A false interpretation and application of "the Law" is no longer the true Law, but the only commonality is the name. Which is what Paul is saying:

"Now we know that the law (nomos) is good, if one uses it lawfully nomimos."

Even if we substitute an "although" for the "if," Paul's message is still clear. Contextually speaking, the issue at hand is that "Timothy’s opponents in Ephesus have been placing an undue and inappropriate emphasis on their peculiar understanding of the law."

Paul is saying that "the law" is indeed good, but the problem is that these people have a distorted understanding of it. Paul is saying that "the law" must be used "properly," or "lawfully."

The Law is good because "it is at the same time the revelation of God's character and will, as well as [...] a temporary guardian leading us to the time of Christ" (with which I agree fully). If someone interprets and applies these points incorrectly, it is no longer the same "Law;" it is a counterfeit. This is Paul's exact concern he is addressing here. It is not good just because it bears the name "law."

Does that clarify my thoughts a bit better?

PS- I cited your NICNT at Bible College, good work ;-D.

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